Speaker 1: Welcome to Getting Rich Together, the show for successful women who are looking to take their financial futures to the next level. I’m your host, Shama Bunton. When I started my wealth-building journey, nobody knocked on my door to give me all the answers. So I want to talk to the experts who’ve done it and bring the answers to you so we can discover the right opportunities that will help us achieve the financial futures we’ve always dreamed of together and have fun doing it.

So let’s dive into this episode and start Getting Rich Together. I am here today with the incredible and beautiful Danielle Corson. Danielle, you are prolific and brilliant equity partner at CSG Law, formal federal prosecutor, a trusted advisor to founders and major corporations. You are just a powerhouse when it comes to being a trial attorney, angel investor, champion for women. And really, it is so exciting to see your bold voice on ambition, wellness, and leadership. I’m so excited to peel back the onion layers today and to dive deeper into what makes you this incredible gem of a human being. Thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much. That’s like the kindest introduction I’ve ever heard. And I really appreciate it. So thank you.

Speaker 1: Oh, you’re so welcome. So let’s start from the beginning. Maybe before you knew you were going to be this badass federal prosecutor and you knew that you were going to go and shape the world.

Take us back to an age of seven, 10, 12 years old. Danielle, where did you grow up? What was life like around you? And what were some of the early money stories you were picking up?

Speaker 2: Sure. So I grew up the oldest of four. I grew up on Long Island in New York. When I was a little girl, I always had a sense of what was right and fair and just. And I always would raise my hand and offer what was probably an unpopular opinion. But wait, why?

Why is it that way? You know, I remember being in maybe the sixth grade and a poem that I wrote was selected to be published in a book. And I thought it was such a big deal and I was so excited about it. It was one of those things where I wondered, could I be a writer? Can I make a career being a writer? And so when I was a little girl, I wanted to be a writer and that’s all I ever wanted to do. And I also had this sense of what was fair and particularly around how the lens I saw, how girls were treated differently.

Speaker 1: Do you remember what that poem was about or like what it felt like when you wrote it?

Speaker 2: Yes, I do remember. It was about race and it was about two children of different races and how they should be together and they should be friends and that I remember there was a line in it that, you know, I was how a girl, sixth grade, how old were you? Twelve? Twelve, yeah.

No. You know, the idea that we all look the same in the darkness of night, that we should be together. And I remember my sixth grade teacher telling me, you know, you’re a really good writer and I have a friend who’s writing a book and, you know, there’s a scene in the book where the protagonist sees a piece of paper on the floor and picks it up and I think it should be your poem. And I remember being so proud and so excited. So when I was a little young person, I wanted to be a writer and I always had a sense of what was right and what was wrong.

Speaker 1: So maybe you did always know that you were going to be putting the hand of judgment in the world. Tell me a little bit about your family life, brothers, sisters. What was it like going to school? Was it public school, private schools? Like what was the ecosystem and home life around you?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I went to public school. I really loved school and I would say that education was the great equalizer for me. I did not grow up with a lot. I moved a lot as a kid. I grew up in a home with a lot of love, but we didn’t necessarily have all the extras.

We have what we needed. But when I went to college at UMass Amherst in 1998, I showed up and I thought that my express genes were super hot and everyone else had these seven genes and I had never heard of them. It was not even in my worldview. So I didn’t grow up with anything necessarily fancy, but I had what I needed for sure. I as a child moved a lot. And so what that allowed me to do was to really figure out people and how to get to know new people, how to be the new person. It really created a sense of empathy for who I am as a person because I can see very easily what it’s like to not be necessarily within the mix. And so I was very good at an early age at being inclusive and creating opportunities for people to come together. And that’s, you know, as an adult, one of my favorite things to do is to introduce people to one another and you should know her and how you’re both doing really great things, connecting people and helping others feel more connected.

Speaker 1: As you found yourself in high school, you’re starting to dabble in things and figure things out and you’re growing up. Did you find yourself with an independent streak? Was it Danielle who was like, I’m going to get a part time job or I’m going to exercise this independence? Or did you find yourself really down this line of studies and pathway to education is how I’m going to move into this next stage of my life?

Speaker 2: Well, I always was a rule follower, right? So the oldest of four, you know, I’m definitely like the eldest daughter, you know, there’s all this research around it now. And I read it and I’m like, oh, I totally see that. I always had a job. So I babysat when I was 16. My first job was at Blockbuster, which doesn’t exist anymore, but I put the BHS cassettes away and then I got crazy.

Speaker 1: Did it drive you crazy when people did not wind when they didn’t like wind up the videos? And, you know, I was just talking to my husband the other day. I was like, oh my God, the late fees and the like rewind were like the death of me at Blockbuster.

Speaker 2: It was a really fun job when you were 16, right? Because there were movies on and there was candy that we would take. It was a great first job. But then I worked at Macy’s. I was in the sitting room.

So nothing glamorous. And then I started waiting tables and I always waited tables until probably my first year my first summer after my first year of law school. It was the first year I didn’t wait tables. I made a lot more money waiting tables than I did in my first internship as a law student for sure.

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that’s wild. Where did she spend the money? Was it like, let’s hang out with the girlfriends? Was it I’m going to save my money? What was your mindset around earning as a young person?

Speaker 2: So it was independence, right? It was the ability to not have to ask someone for anything. That was really important to me then and important to me now, right? To be self-sufficient and to be able to create the life that I want and be able to do the things and enjoy the things that I would like to do and have the ability to do that on my own. Not to suggest that I’m not someone who wants to have help.

I mean, that’s something that I’m totally open to. But it was really important to me as a young person to be able to have my own money. And what did I spend it on? I mean, probably everything in the mall because I always worked in the mall. Probably never did you check there. I think Claire’s was the thing at the time. Or Hot Topic was another story that I liked.

Speaker 1: Or like there was this story called like 5.7 .9 that I used to show up at.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s 5.7 .9 for sure.

Speaker 1: For sure. So funny. OK, so moving on from like early independence in high school, you’re now considering going off to university with this staunch sense of fairness in the world. And Danielle wants to make a difference. Had you at that time when you were getting ready to apply for university and think about young adulthood, did you know, OK, immediately I want to be a lawyer.

And this is sort of what brings true. Was it I’m going to pursue something in writing? I mean, how did you sort of look at early college and what you thought you were going to be?

Speaker 2: You look at it now when people go to college, they get to. And maybe some people did back then, but you know, these college visits and getting to see the schools.

I mean, at the time, you know, we were and I was not able to go visit any of the colleges that I applied to, you know, I took out videos at the library, you know, to see what is it really the internet was even that big of a thing then. I ended up going to UMass Amherst and I was an English major when I went to Amherst. And I was a psychology and women’s studies minor. So I studied English and women’s studies and psychology when I was there.

It wasn’t until my junior year of college that I decided I wanted to go to law school. I was in a women’s studies class and this was a really pivotal moment in my life. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was women of color in the legal system and I was the only woman who was not of color in that class.

And I learned so much from the other students in that class. 2000, a conversation around band-aids and what color are band-aids? And someone said skin color.

And it’s like, but who is skin color? And I just was like, the law. And I thought I was so open-minded and so just this person who understood the world.

And I obviously didn’t. I remember just sitting in that class and thinking, like, wow, that’s really unfair. It just sparked another level of is the justice system actually helping people? And, you know, at that point, I knew I wanted to be an advocate for women and children. Ultimately, I did that when I went to the U.S. Turnies office, deferred to those few different ways. But that’s what I went to law school thinking I would be a writer. I mean, I guess I do write as a lawyer and I do enjoy writing very much, but end up going to law school for that reason.

Speaker 1: That sounds incredible. It sounds like there’s this like deeper pulling of a greater purpose in you at a very young age to be in university and to be struck by social injustices and equities and to decide to do something about it. I think that there’s something bold, you know, at that time, had any ideas around, hey, being a lawyer could make a lot of money. Like, did any of that stuff sort of come into your mind as you were pursuing this sort of educational path? Yeah.

Speaker 2: So I was the first person in my family go to college, first person I go to law school. So it took out a ton of loans. When I went to law school, I went to New York law school in Tribeca and it’s an awesome law school and my best friends are still my very best friends and I met at 22. But I was there was no guidance, right? I read a book at UMass called Where Women Succeed in Law School. That was the book that helped me figure out where to apply to law schools. It’s female tenured faculty members.

That was my criteria. And so New York law school fit that. It was in New York. I grew up in New York and I got some scholarship money to go there. And when I got there, I was in the social justice center. I was part of the honors program.

I really was going to be an advocate for women and children. And I did some pro bono work as a young law student. You get your first year of grades and there’s something called law review, which is like the top of the class and you get on this journal and it’s prestigious and, you know, it’s just ranking.

I remember making law review and being really proud of it. And one of my classmates saying something along the lines of, huh, I’m surprised you’re here. And I was like, why?

Why are you surprised? And he’s like, yeah, I just just was surprised. And that was like the first time where I’ve always been really ambitious.

But in that moment, I was like, oh, you think you’re better than me? And what is that job you want? You know, and things that I never thought I wanted never even heard of all of a sudden I was striving for, which put me a little bit in a path of chasing that what you’re talking about, like money, right? Like I wanted to pay back my law school loans going into social justice right away.

I wasn’t going to cut it. I had deferred all of my loans from undergrad. And so I went into big law right away. Part of it was because I wanted to make money. And also part of it wanted this, I wanted to prove that I could get there too.

Speaker 1: Because it’s hard to get there. Totally. I mean, I think that there’s nothing quite like someone flaunting something or not being loving and kind, which is what it sounds like.

That person was not being loving and kind to really spur a great deal of competition. And I’m going to show you don’t tell me that I can’t do this. I’m going to show you. I have a question about the student loans. Had you been educated as you were taking out student loans on sort of the implications of that or what that looked like, what kind of financial education did you get from the schools or the institutions on like as a young person, right?

18, 19 years old, 20 years old, you’re making big financial decisions with your time and your money. How did you sort of reconcile that or where did you get your information from? I had no information.

Speaker 2: All I knew is that I wanted to go to college away from home and I needed to take out loans to do it. After my first year of college, I ended up getting dropped from all my classes because my parents had recently divorced and my dad was supposed to pay you for the classes and it didn’t happen in the time that it needed to happen. My aunt, who has always been a huge supporter of mine, she cosigned loans for me so that I could take them out of my own name.

That was very, very important to me. Those interest rates were so high because I had no credit and she wasn’t my mother, right? So she was like really predatory lending numbers. But when I graduated from law school, that was the first loan I paid back. Like I paid it back in full. Within that first year, every SAC went back. But I remember not having money for books in law school.

Like on my first day of law school, I was like, all right, so I came to the board of books and I went to see if I can get some more student aid. And this wonderful woman, her name was Dorothy. She’s in this past away. She worked in financial aid and she said, well, I can give you a job right now. And I went around the corner and I worked in the finance department. Oh, and then she… Yeah.

Yeah. It was great. I worked, like I got that job right then. And then, you know, got to know her well. And she set me up the next semester with a really great job as a library attendant, which essentially meant like when you wanted to go to the bathroom, I’d watch your bag and I got paid to study.

So it was a great hack. So I had work, study in college. And I always had jobs, you know, when I was at UMass Amherst, I did the campus tours. I worked at a restaurant and I worked on annual funding. Always had multiple jobs.

Speaker 1: As you were then graduating with all of this, I feel like when you graduate college, it can be. The most terrifying thing, at least remembering for myself when I graduate, remember being like, if I don’t get a job, I’m never going to make it in this world. And all this pressure and stress at such a young age. And it can also just be this most incredible liberating time where it’s like, all right, world, here I am. Like, let’s see what you got. How did you approach entering into being an adult post-law degree and looking at your prospects and what was ahead of you?

Speaker 2: So when I first graduated college, I went right into law school. So I started law school when I was 22. So really young, didn’t fully appreciate what it would take. And I have always had a really hard work ethic. And so I just put my head down and I worked hard. And, you know, it worked out for me as far as like grade wise and making friends.

It was a wonderful experience for me, despite the fact that it’s difficult. When I graduated from law school, it was 25. And I started a law firm called Whiten Case, which is a big intrash law firm. That was intense because I had never been in a super corporate environment. I had worked in restaurants and small law firms before, but never been these big global law firms. And so when I got there, I didn’t summer there. I had summered at a small litigation boutique firm the summer before and they didn’t hire out of law school. They were actually the law firm that represented Martha Stewart in the criminal case against her. So that was my first, that was like my first real legal job.

I was very cool. And my practice is I do white color criminal defense. I do internal investigations for companies and for boards. That’s what I do now. But as a second year law student working on the team that was representing Martha Stewart.

And now watching just going through for watching that documentary now. I remember at the time thinking, this is so unfair that she’s being charged with this. And now with the lens of having been a federal prosecutor myself and understanding the discussion that goes into those decisions and who she was at the time. It’s just fascinating to me.

Actually, she writes something about it because it’s just so interesting. The point of sharing that is I didn’t summer at this big law firm. I summered at a smaller firm. So the first time I showed up really was it was just so overwhelming.

You know, 118 floors, glass everywhere, so beautiful, like right off of Bryan Park. And I felt really intimidated being there and wasn’t sure how I fit in that culture. And so I do what I always said. I just work really, really hard and showed that I can play ball here too.

Speaker 1: Wow, powerful. And that opportunity was it. You know, when you got that offer, did it feel pretty standardized? Like, did you compare like salary offers with like other of your college classmates? Was it I’m so just excited to get this opportunity? How did you look at salary and what was being presented to you as an offer at this first company?

Speaker 2: There’s a lot of standardization of pay in big law, right? So it’s pretty much lockstep until you get to a certain level. So you know, as a first year one in 2005 when I graduated from law school, a first year lawyer who didn’t know anything was making $125,000 a year in New York at the time. I knew I wanted to go into big law because I needed to pay back my loans. And one of the things that’s always guided my life, my career, is alignment, intuition, you know, being open to opportunities, the idea of like abundances everywhere. I mean, I’m ambitious, but I’m really not competitive. I think we can all have everything we want, right?

There’s plenty for everybody. When I ended up at White and Case, that was just straight up alignment. So I had worked at a small litigation fatigue, Marvila Abramovich, very well respected, and they didn’t hire out of law school. They hired out of a clerkship or out of working for the government. And so one of the partners there called a partner that she knew over at White and Case and said, hey, we’ve got this great law student. She goes, I’m a job.

Can you meet her? And it was supposed to be a professional courtesy interview. It was on a Friday. I was supposed to meet with one person and I ended up meeting with five of them.

And on Monday, I got an offer and I accepted it. I was like, wow. And it didn’t like everywhere I’ve been, it’s like on paper, I don’t necessarily belong, right? Like I didn’t have the pedigree. And when I was there, I remember a colleague of mine said something to me about the fact of where I went to law school.

Everyone had come from Ivy League. So I didn’t. I remember looking at him as a fast forward a couple of years and I said, yeah, look at that. We’re at the same place.

Speaker 1: Funny, right? I love that. So so you’re building your career and it sounds like wayfinding with these incredible opportunities and building substantial practice. Talk to me a little bit about the years and the dominoes that fell between starting post university and post law degree to then finding yourself at the United States Attorney’s Office. Like what were some of the key things? Obviously, I can make a lot of inferences here around your desire for social justice and wanting to sort of see things come to fruition with the fairness lens.

But I’d love to hear some of those key pivotal moments and finding yourself in some of these prestigious environments. There’s a clear path there, right? You can stay there, heads down and sort of continue to keep focusing. What were some of the key decisions and how did you decide to make the step?

Speaker 2: So first off, I think it comes to mirroring, right? Everyone that I worked for had spent time at the US Attorney’s Office. So all of the senior partners that I worked for who had these illustrative careers and were super successful and respected had done that. And so I think there was a piece of me that thought, well, if I’m going to build a practice at a law firm, I need to do that.

I need that street cred. Now, it’s also very difficult to do to get those jobs, right? And I had no connections and I had no family connections. And so I networked myself into those opportunities. I applied multiple times. I applied when I was a third year to just the three offices that were near Maryland and New York at the time, Brooklyn. So I applied to Brooklyn, Manhattan and New Jersey. I got through two rounds in Manhattan, and they told me, you’re two junior, come back in 18 months. New Jersey rejected me outright. I think my application is still pending in Brooklyn.

I never heard one way or the other from them. I applied again in 18 months. I applied to all of them again, and really just demonstrated that I wanted to do it.

The reason I wanted to do it other than trying to be an advocate was I did some pro bono work when I was a first-year lawyer. There’s something called the Criminal Justice Act. That is when private lawyers could come in and represent indigent federal defendants when there’s a conflict. When the public defender’s office has a conflict, it’s a multi-defending case, or there’s some conflict there.

Private lawyers will come in, and either the firm I worked at, we did a pro bono, other firms get a very low rate, but it’s really a service opportunity. That’s when I had the first chance to stand up in the federal court on my own. I think it was the perfect intersection of realizing that I, as much as I love to write, I’m probably better on my feet. I really enjoyed that, and I loved connecting with the judge and being able to answer questions in real time.

It had a taste of that very early in my career and wanted more of that, and thought, like, Wilbur is the best place to do that. It’s at the Department of Justice. But then when I got to finally interviewed in New Jersey, and got all the way to the last round, it was two days after there was a federal hiring freeze. So from my interview to when I actually got the job, it was two years.

Speaker 1: Oh, wild. Oh, my gosh, that’s wild, Danielle. You know, when you were thinking about going from private sector to the public sector, were there any sort of, aside from, this is the road I need to take, how did you sort of think about it financially? Were you going to have to take a salary cut by going into working for the government? Was there a financial deviation off course here, or was it planned? How was it like going from one very distinct environment, and then moving into this other environment? What were some of the financial considerations?

Speaker 2: So I went from going from big law. I was at a time I was at a law firm called Linklater. It was my whole practice. The Y column practice left way in case I went to Linklater. It was four partners and 12 associates, and so I went with them. So it was with the same group at a different international law firm. When I left Linklater, I went to go to Avon.

I was in house at the beauty company. And that was a hundred thousand dollar pay cut from big law to in-house. When I got the job at the U.S. Attorney’s Office, that was another 90,000 pay cut. And my husband was like, every time you tell me you got a better job, you make sure that’s more funny. Which was true. They were better jobs at last buddy. So those two things can coexist.

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that’s so wild. And during those years, I mean, obviously it sounds like you’re making these really interesting sort of next steps to really cultivate this body of work. As you were sort of incurring these salaries and certainly also dealing with student debt, was your mindset sort of, let’s say, before you had the position at the attorney’s office, was it, you know, I’m going to, I’m a saver and here’s the savings bucket.

You know, here’s the this thing. How did you sort of look at your pie, if you will, you know, as a family or as an individual when it came to financial expenditures or prioritizations? What were some of the things top of mind for you?

Speaker 2: So I think the hardest part for me was getting my head around going to the U.S. Attorney’s Office when it happened, because I left link leaders. I was at Avon. I loved working with the business. That’s where I really fell in love with working with the board.

I would advise the board in my role at Avon. And I would not have left absent getting this opportunity at the U.S. Attorney’s Office. But when I got the opportunity at the Attorney’s Office, I was six weeks pregnant with my first child. The timing was not perfect in any stretch. And I was super afraid of leaving Brooklyn, working in New Jersey. I’m now pregnant.

What does this look like? And something I wanted my whole career all of a sudden didn’t seem as possible. To my husband’s credit, he said to me, I’ve always wanted this. Why would you not go for it? Because you’re pregnant. And I was like, because I don’t know if I can do it. And I think one of the things that I love most in the role that I’m in now is being able to model for working moms and working parents. So it’s not easy, but you can do all the things that you want to do.

And you don’t have to sacrifice yourself and your own ambitions and desires. Whether that be parenthood or professionally, I took my OSAV office to support and defend the Constitution six months pregnant. I had this big belly.

And it’s one of my favorite pictures because I had some set to do that. But the big financial concern was I had spent years paying into FMLA. But as a federal employee, there’s not a state fund because you’re not a state employee. At the time, there was no federal maternity leave.

So that was a big concern was going on maternity leave without any coverage. I was terrified. I was so terrified. But there was something, again, talking about alignment and intuition.

There was something just inside of me that was like, this is something you’re intended to do. And I’m so proud of the work I did at the OSAV office. I mean, I spent a lot of time in the health care and government fraud unit and did a lot of prosecution of white color crime and that sort of work. But I did a ton of work against human traffickers and child exploitation. I mean, it did a ton of really good victim work. And proud of my time there and the way that I was able to show up for victims with an empathetic trauma-informed way.

And I know it helped a lot of people. And when it was over, it was over, right? Because the work was so intense that it was time to put it down and move on. And I don’t know. I think there was something bigger than me pushing me to do it.

Speaker 1: That’s so powerful. And so you were there for five years and then made another sort of strategic move out of there. Was that time stamp something that was predetermined at the beginning, as far as like a career path? What were some of the considerations that you made that then sort of told you, hey, like it’s time to start thinking about what’s next?

Speaker 2: Well, I think when you talk about, you know, we’re talking about here, money and being in a position to take care of all the things that you take care of, the pay cut was significant and the earning potential I had was much higher.

And my oldest son was starting kindergarten. And I had zero flexibility at the US Attorney’s Office because you represent the country. So an FBI call, change your desk, you can’t be running out to this, that and the other. So it was a decision personally to have more flexibility and to potentially earn a significant increase in my salary.

Speaker 1: And getting back out there, it’s been five years, which is not no time, right? Between your last sort of private sector move and moving back into the space. When you found yourself looking at these new opportunities, now it sounds like you’re a real triple threat. You know, you’ve got all this experience. You’re now walking in the shoes of those who you once admired who had that experience. Did you feel really emboldened? Or how did you sort of approach these next negotiations and conversations around compensation and salary? Now also being a bomb, you know, I feel like there are so many things that happen that fortify who you are and what you want to be. What was Danielle like?

Speaker 2: Well, no, you know, when I first left the US Attorney’s Office, I had a few opportunities that were really, really big. And when I got incredibly close to getting those opportunities, I withdrew my application. I withdrew my application before I met with the General Counsel of big companies, before I met with the managing partners of international law firms based in New York. I knew that life wouldn’t give me the ability to be the kind of mother that I wanted to be living in New Jersey.

That would have just been too much. I knew my practice name was being New Jersey. And at that point, I had built a community around me and had a reputation with my colleagues in New Jersey. And that was like my highest value, even though my whole career had been in New York up until that point.

And I ended up at CSU where I am now. It’s just been an incredible opportunity for me because this is a really entrepreneurial berm. There is a sense of being intentional about the next generation of leadership. I serve on my firm’s executive committee, which is the governing body of the firm. It’s an elective position. I’m on my second term. There’s five people who are on that.

My partner is voted beyond that. In addition to having full law practice, I chair the litigation department. I have this lens of how to run this business. I wanted to be somewhere where I wouldn’t be a cog in a wheel. I wanted to be somewhere that I could make impact, help other people, help other women be a model. Not necessarily you want to emulate me. Maybe I don’t do things the way that you want to do them.

But I wanted to be a different model than what I saw. When I was growing up in big law, I remember there was a partner. I’ll never forget.

I was 25. It was like a women’s lunch. And she said, you can not just do it personally, just this whole group. You can be a partner here, but you’ll need morning care and night care. And I was just thinking to myself, gosh, that’s got to be so hard, right? And I have so much respect for the women who did it. And I think post pandemic, the world has changed in a way that you’re able to kind of throw at the needle in a way that’s a little bit more balanced, I guess, is the right word.

I wanted to be somewhere that I would be able to grow personally and professionally. And I’ve been at my heart now for a little over seven years. And it’s wonderful.

Speaker 1: That’s so awesome. At what point do you think like this ability to advocate or position yourself and sort of get the salary or compensation or title? At what point did that become important for you? And how did you start to approach that differentiator between, okay, we’re all on the same level, and we’re moving up the steps here together. But now this is my moment to break out of that mold and start to shine in a different way.

Speaker 2: Look, I’m in a private law firm. And there’s lots of different ways that you’re compensating a law firm. But one of them is your book of business, right? So how large is your book of business? How are you contributing to the firm? Are you mentoring? Are you chairing a department?

Are you adding to the culture in a positive way? There’s lots of ways that you’re evaluated at the end of the year. I sit on the executive committee, so I see how those decisions are made. As a law firm partner, you understand that you’re ultimately judged on how you contribute to the firm.

And so for me, I’ve never been the type of person that just waits for someone to give me something. How do you build a business? I had no idea, but I started talking to people who had law practices. Turns out you just have to be good to people and available to answer questions when they show up and to be accessible. And for me, it’s just about working with and for people and organizations that I admire and that I respect and that I can help.

It’s all about adding value. There’s times where I get opportunities. I’m like, I don’t know if I’m the right person here. You could hire me or you can hire this other person.

One of my favorite things to do is make a referral and open the door for somebody else. It won’t be necessary reciprocal. Like I gave it to this person, so she’s going to give it back to me or he’s going to give it back to me. But you’re creating conditions in the car, which I’d have more abundance. My approach is just if you can help, you should.

You should share origination if it makes sense. If you pitch a case with somebody, don’t be greedy. Just be generous. Like that’s been my whole business model. It’s generosity, I guess.

Speaker 1: That’s the best Danielle. So talk to me a little bit about obviously you’re really trailblazing and both modeling, I would say, for other younger women and older women, sort of what life can look like, right? When you put your values front and center and when you’re clear about what’s important to you. I know obviously you’ve also had some incredible experiences when it comes to working with founders and when it comes to looking at angel investing and sort of expanding your own aperture from a financial lens of really also what is possible, right? Beyond sort of the salary from the firm and whatever those regular, more traditional compensation packages look like. Tell me a little bit about sort of your experience or how you got interested in looking at alternative asset classes and thinking beyond, let’s say, the 401k, beyond sort of the stock market. Where did that inclination come from and how have you nurtured that?

Speaker 2: I have a mutual friend, Fran Hauser, who is an angel investor and she introduced me to the concept many years ago and I have any money to angel invest, but I did. I put a very small investment into a women founded company. What I love about it is being in the position to help a founder navigate things that they wouldn’t necessarily have access to. For me, I help big companies and to be able to help smaller companies scale in a way that they can mitigate risk on the front end because I’ve seen every bad thing happen on the back end.

Like I can see around quarters and maybe put some numbers up to help avoid issues. Did that the first time and then you start investing and it’s not just investing your money, it’s investing your skills, right? Helping a company, helping a founder grow and scale with good governance in place. So that’s how I started doing that. As far as just expansion goes, I’ve just been really open to what’s in front of me.

Rather than if it’s in front of me, there must be a reason and so how can I show up in a way that’s going to move the needle for someone if I can.

Speaker 1: I love that. I want to double click a little bit on family life. Obviously, now you’re a mom, you’ve got a beautiful family. I think it’s always so interesting when having children and the way in which our children get to be raised and brought up are obviously different from the way we were raised and brought up and you get to shape and create a different environment for them and instill things in them. As you’re looking at really some of the things in your life that you are eager to share and explain to them or impart on them, how do you look at both independence? Because I think you exhibited quite a bit of independence as a young person. How do you look at that within the children? And what are some of those conversations like if at all at home around this?

Speaker 2: Both of my children are marathletic and they play ice hockey pretty competitively and they love it. And there’s a lot of independence and responsibility around being on a team and being on an ice hockey team, which requires early practices and long days and tournaments and trouble and being responsible for your own bag and tying your own skates and things like that. Right? So as far as like independence goes, I think my kids are learning it.

One thing that I’m always mindful of is my kids are growing up with a very different financial demographic than I did. Right? You know, they, I mean, I think I can count on my hands how many times I’ve been on vacation as a kid. They go on vacation multiple times a year. They have hockey tournaments.

It’s no problem. They’re not worried about, they’re not worried about money and they shouldn’t be right. And I don’t want them to be entitled. And we talk a lot about gratitude in our house. We talk a lot about being appreciative. You know, you can’t take anything for granted. You know, I hope that I’m in a position to pay for my children’s college.

My husband and I, I hope that we’ll be able to do that. But whether we can or we can’t, I want my children to think they’ve got some skin in the game. You know, I don’t want them to think that it’s just paid for. And I’ve said that to them, you’re going to contribute to your college. You know, I want them to appreciate what they have. You know, I say to them all the time, if I can give it to you and you can appreciate it, I will. But if you don’t appreciate it and you aren’t grateful for it, then that’s when it all goes away.

Speaker 1: That’s kind of the, I guess there’s conversations around money and stat. And also, you know, I’m not afraid of money. I think that it’s meant to be spent if you’re able to.

And, you know, I don’t want to be flipping about it, but I think it can be enjoyed and it’s just energy and you can make, there’s ways to continue to make money and to be in alignment with money. I want to create opportunities for my children to have special things. You know, I want to rent a sailboat or go on a fishing trip. What’s the point of working to have this money if you’re not spending it on things that create memories and opportunity?

Speaker 1: I so agree with you. We’re all sort of, I think, going to be living so much longer these days with science and technology. And, you know, I’d love for you to close your eyes and imagine Danielle projected forward into her young 100s, looking back on a beautiful body of work and this incredible life. What does legacy or what does that story look like for you? How would you sort of want to tell that narrative of this body of work that you’ve been able to create in this lifetime?

Speaker 2: You know, the thing that I’m most proud of is being a mother and the young boys that I’m raising into men and my contribution to this world will be good men. I’m really proud of who they are as people today and I trust that they’ll continue to grow.

And when I look back, it’ll be really my family that I’m most proud of. And exactly, if somebody’s sponsored of the Take Your Kid to Work Day at the firm, we have 300 employees on Take Your Kid to Work Day. There’s like 100 kids here.

It’s crazy. I say, of all the things I do a lot of jobs, my most important job is being a mom to my boys and my kids are like, you’re embarrassing us. But like, I want them to hear that. I want them to know that because that’s actually true.

Speaker 1: Oh, that’s so beautiful. So my last two questions are also some of my favorite. The first one is you kind of alluded to this a little bit. Money is certainly there to be enjoyed. And the whole point of having a savings is that you use it, right, for things.

There’s an idea of being able to have joy and fun and use your money to help bring that to life. What are some of your most favorite things that you have most recently spent your money on?

Speaker 2: We rented a house for three weeks by the beach this summer. And that is my most favorite way to spend money is to create a space where my children are somewhere new and have the opportunity to ride their bikes and go to the beach and play mini golf with their friends and much rather spend money. I like an ice back, but I would much rather spend money on like an experience. I would say renting the beach house was the best thing I spent money on recently.

Speaker 1: How fabulous. And then my last question, you know, the audience loves to support the women who are on the show. What is it that you are calling in right now? What is it that you are needing? How might we be able to show up for you? That’s a beautiful question.

Speaker 2: And I’m going to steal that when I’m with other people because it’s such a it’s such a nice question. So thank you for asking it. I am recently a adjunct professor a lot at Seaton Hill Law School, where I am teaching on the intersection of ambition and well being.

I’m really enjoying those conversations and the opportunity to expose the next generation of law students to maybe modalities they weren’t aware of helping them recognize that, you know, when you feel good, you’ll be more successful, right? It’s not a wait until you check all the boxes. It’s the boxes will be checked because you feel good, right? Like that is your highest and best, you know, the mantra for the class was it’s good to feel good. And so for me, I’m calling in more of those teaching opportunities, speaking opportunities. I’m writing about it. If you’re interested, love to talk about it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, I think that’s so it’s so exciting, Danielle. Your life story has been albeit short, I imagine we could have gone way deeper and spent many more hours together. But it’s been so nuanced and it’s so wonderful to get to hear the ways in which you’ve been navigating your life and really focusing and doubling down on your priorities. You know, I think that understanding what’s important to us is ultimately the best ways that we can live a life with purpose and intention is to be able to say, this is what’s important to me.

This is how I want to leave my legacy. And so it’s so beautiful to hear your story. Thank you so much for being here today, Danielle.

It’s a gift to have you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Getting Rich Together. Please take a minute to subscribe. And if you like this episode, I’d love it if you could share it with your friend who is ready to elevate their financial future. Until next time, let’s keep getting rich together.